What Component Speakers do you Recommend??

**wms004** · **What Component Speakers do you Recommend?? -** 12-02-03, 02:19 PM

I've got a Clarion MP3 Headunit 4x50watts and stock non mach speakers in the cabin, and a 12'' kicker in a custom box in the spare tire well. I was thinking of replacing the 2 speakers up front on the door with component speakers..

Which brands would you recommend for around 200 bucks? Also, any recommendations on placement for the tweeters.. any install tips?

thanks

-wade

**Ruffrider** · 12-02-03, 02:23 PM

I just got a set of CDT High Definition HD-62s. They are 6.5" Speakers so you'll need to either make a bracket or buy one to adapt the speaker hole in the door to fit them. You'll also want to power them off an amp instead of a Headunit to get the most out of them. The link for them is pasted below.

http://nexxon.com/cdt/highdefinitionseries.htm

**wms004** · 12-02-03, 02:32 PM

is it really necessary to power aftermarket speakers off an amp? I know it will sound cleaner but I was figuring 50 watts would be enough

larrendeuce · 12-02-03, 02:54 PM

The speakers aren't really getting 50 watts, its more like 19-25 watts RMS power. I like the JL Audio Amps and componets. You could run 75 watts per channel with one of their systems.

**302stang** · 12-02-03, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrendeuce

The speakers aren't really getting 50 watts, its more like 19-25 watts RMS power. I like the JL Audio Amps and componets. You could run 75 watts per channel with one of their systems.

The real power output is even less than this. The theoretical max power output at 12 volts with a 4 ohm speaker is 18 watts RMS. This would be with a 100% efficient amplifier which of course is not possible. The max output of most headunits is only about 10-13 watts RMS, even though many say more than this. They cannot make more than 18 watts unless they had a power supply to raise the voltage for the internal amp, which no headunits have.

I would not recommend getting components unless they are powered by an amplifier. Components are generally less efficient than coaxials and with the low power output of a headunit they will probably sound no better and will not play as loud as coaxials. Even a cheap amp will work better than the headunit power. 10-13 watts from the headunit is not much power and most likely will not sound as good as even a very low power and cheap amp.

grodgers · 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302stang

The real power output is even less than this. The theoretical max power output at 12 volts with a 4 ohm speaker is 18 watts RMS. This would be with a 100% efficient amplifier which of course is not possible. The max output of most headunits is only about 10-13 watts RMS, even though many say more than this. They cannot make more than 18 watts unless they had a power supply to raise the voltage for the internal amp, which no headunits have.

I would not recommend getting components unless they are powered by an amplifier. Components are generally less efficient than coaxials and with the low power output of a headunit they will probably sound no better and will not play as loud as coaxials. Even a cheap amp will work better than the headunit power. 10-13 watts from the headunit is not much power and most likely will not sound as good as even a very low power and cheap amp.

Could you shed some light on the "theoretical max power output"? I'd really like to understand....because it seems to me that you're mixing input and output in your calculations... You're assuming a 12V input (correct), but that 12V does NOT see a 4ohm impedance....it sees the impedance of the amplifier circuitry, NOT the speaker. The amplifier output power is determined by I^2*R (I being current output to the speakers, in RMS, and R being the 4-ohm load.

You can't mix apples and oranges... And... the input is a DC voltage, seeing an internal resistance, yet the output is an AC current seeing an external impedance...while impedance and resistance are related, they are not the same.

Most alpine head units put out 22 watts RMS per channel (really), and the v-drive's put out 27 watts RMS per channel (really).

Gary

I'm not trying to be a stickler...but the assumption that you can't have more than 18 true watts RMS per channel at 12V is incorrect.

**BBrinks** · 12-02-03, 09:37 PM

If you're going to run a component set, I agree with the above responses, you should run an external amp. If you're running them off the HU, you'd be better off geting coaxils.
For 5.25" comps, you can buy some adapter plates that convert the 6x8 opening to fit the mid and the tweeter. This is the easiest method, because you can still use the factory bracket. You don't get as much midbass as the 6.5", but installation is much easier.
For 6.5", you will need to make new adapter plates to fit the mid in the door. Also, you will probably need to mount the tweeter on the A-pillar or somewhere on the door, which requires even more installation time. You get more midbass with the bigger mid, and it brings the bass up front more, but it takes longer for the install.
For recommendations:
DEI 650.2/550.2: http://www.sounddomain.com/shoplist~...peaker+Systems
I haven't heard these comps unfortunately, but I've heard great things about them. DEI's make amazing speakers, and if I had to recommend a set, these would proably be it. I don't like metal dome tweets, but apparently they're not as bright as normal metal tweeters. I'd jump on these if I were you.
Review: http://www.caraudioforum.com/showthr...hreadid=167081

CDT Cl-61a: http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/CDT_A...omponents.html
I run the classics in my car and they sound amazing. Very accurate and great response. The tweeter is a little laid back, but very natural sounding. I'd recommend these or if you want to spend the extra money, get the HD's that Ruffrider mentioned.

Some other great comp sets are Crystal's from sounddomain.com, JL XR's, Focal, or you could do it the DIY method and pair up a pair of peerless CSC-X autosound mids to some Vifa D26 auto tweeters from www.madisound.com. Madisound will design and make a crossover for you, also. It makes a great component set from what I've heard, and the peerless is supposed to be one of the best on the market.

**302stang** · 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grodgers

Could you shed some light on the "theoretical max power output"? I'd really like to understand....because it seems to me that you're mixing input and output in your calculations... You're assuming a 12V input (correct), but that 12V does NOT see a 4ohm impedance....it sees the impedance of the amplifier circuitry, NOT the speaker. The amplifier output power is determined by I^2*R (I being current output to the speakers, in RMS, and R being the 4-ohm load.

You can't mix apples and oranges... And... the input is a DC voltage, seeing an internal resistance, yet the output is an AC current seeing an external impedance...while impedance and resistance are related, they are not the same.

Most alpine head units put out 22 watts RMS per channel (really), and the v-drive's put out 27 watts RMS per channel (really).

Gary

I'm not trying to be a stickler...but the assumption that you can't have more than 18 true watts RMS per channel at 12V is incorrect.

Since the input power is 12 volts DC, that means that the top of the AC waveform made by the internal amplifier can be 12 volts. The transistors of the amp can only lower voltage, not raise it. Since most headunits don't have a power supply to raise the voltage, that means that the top of the sinewave of the output signal can be 12 volts max(not including efficiencies which will lower it).

The RMS voltage of an AC voltage that has a peak of 12 volts is 8.48 volts. In case you don't know RMS voltage is found by dividing the peak voltage of an AC sinewave by the square root of 2.

By ohms law: watts = volts^2/ohms
so for 12 volts peak AC(8.48 volts RMS) and a speaker impedance of 4 ohms: watts = 8.48^2/4 = 18 watts.

Alpines V-drive headunits are the only ones that I know of that use a power supply to boost the voltage for the headunits internal amp. They say they can make 27 watts RMS, but this is probably under ideal conditions that are not typical for normal use. This power is possible with their claimed power supply voltage of 17.2 volts and typical amplifier efficiencies. But to fit the amp into such a small space with the other electronics of the headunit, there has to be compromises made, and that means worse sound quality than a comparable external amp and most likely higher distortion.

There are no industry standards that car audio companies have to comply by when finding the power ratings. So they can find a lot of ways to make their power rating sound better than it really is and not just tell a lie. One way is to clip the signal; clipping is when the peaks of the AC waveform becomes flat. If they figure out the RMS power with a clipped signal, they can still be telling the truth and say they have more than 18 watts RMS, but this is with an added distortion. Almost all headunits say their RMS power rating if you look at the specs but they do not say if there is any clipping or what kind of distortion it is making. There are also other ways to have a higher power rating and still not lie. But it is stretching the truth because the internal amplifier is adding its own distortion to the signal because it is being pushed to its limit, and they do not say anything about the distortion being introduced.

**JokerWylde** · 12-03-03, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302stang

There are no industry standards that car audio companies have to comply by when finding the power ratings. So they can find a lot of ways to make their power rating sound better than it really is and not just tell a lie.

The good ol' "when lightning strikes" rating....

Since nobody else has mentioned this yet...
The best thing you can do for yourself is go to all the local shops you can find and listen to as many different speakers as you can. They all sound a bit different, and you should find the ones you like the best, rather than going solely off of others' opinions. If you can't hear the difference between a $200 set of JL components and a $6K set from Rainbow, then there's no reason not to get the cheaper ones. If you do go audition some sets, make sure to take music that you're familiar with to listen to.

**BBrinks** · 12-03-03, 10:04 PM

It is always good to audition speakers before you buy them if you can. Don't, by any means, buy a component set because myself or someone else on the boards recommends one to you. I love the sound of a silk tweeter compared to metal, but you might like the sound a little brighter.
Do what JokerWylde said and audition as many different sets and brands as you can before you decide what set to go with. As long as it sounds good to you, that's all that's important.

Bill